Baparao Replies on pancama vEdaM in SCIT: FWD to telusa
Rao Veluri (rveluri@smtpgate.anl.gov)
Tue, 29 Oct 96 17:15:03 CST
Friends:
I have seen the following posts from Sree Baparao in SCIT. With his
consent, I am posting them to telusa.
Regards.
V R Veluri
_________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Transformation ?? OR mis-representation -- Re : satIsh
cander's pancama vEdam...
Date: 29 Oct 1996 11:04:29 -0800
From: brao@pollux.usc.edu (brao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.telugu
References: <Pine.OSF.3.91.961029090332.9589C-100000@vela.acs.oakland.edu>
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In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.961029090332.9589C-100000@vela.acs.oakland.edu>,
Sitaramayya Ari <ari@Oakland.edu> wrote:
....
*This kind of argument is heard again and again in our society these days.
*When a group of people were disadvantaged for centuries, just when they
*find words to express their resentment we say that that is not the right
*way to change the society!
I don't know much about poetic technique etc. but I too liked the
poem. It touched me. Too often our teachers are a cross between DroNa,
chanDaamarkulu, and cilakamarti vaari gaNapati. Everyone catches the
brunt of their poor choice of profession but I am sure the "lower"
castes catch it worse. The young need encouragement to flourish, not
abuse.
My personal views.
Bapa Rao
___________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Re's: Transformation/mis-representation of epic symbols in
poetry -- Re: satIsh cander's pancama vEdam
Date: 29 Oct 1996 20:00:52 GMT
From: brao@pollux.usc.edu (brao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian.telugu
References: <9610291720.AA29696@st6000.sct.edu>
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In article <9610291720.AA29696@st6000.sct.edu>,
Ramabhadra Dokka <sdokka@st6000.sct.edu> wrote:
....
>I am not questioning his point, but I am saying that he took an inappropriate
>symbol to represent this. When we really talk of transformation or represen-
>tation of symbols in poetry, I feel that they should bear this coherence to
>most extent if not a 1-1 correspondence through out. See, Ekalavya himself is
>NOT talking in this poem but his great grand son (the POET himself as
>aBivyakti) and also I felt that, had the poet symbolized it as "loss of
>kingdom/crown/education/amenities/status" or something like that which is
>RECOVERABLE, that would have been appropriate. Instead, he chose this "loss
>of finger" which is NOT CLEAR since it may suggest AT LEAST SYMBOLICALLY
>that ---
>
>1. Things like LOSS OF FINGER can never change (irrecoverable)
>
>2. Things of this sort are HERIDITARY and THEY are inflicted upon a section
> of people FOR GENERATIONS which is NOT RIGHT in this SYMBOLIC NOTATION
> and also per the epic in discussion
>
>3. There is something MISSING physically in this section of the society
> which in reality IS NOT TRUE
>
There is extensive literature available about the transgenerational
nature of the psychological impact of oppression. I am not in a
position to provide references, but the psychology and sociology
section of any good library should prove a good resource. Basically,
the child forms an image of his own worthiness and capability in
society at an early age, based on what the dominant voices in society
tell him. This self-image is an important factor in later
self-confidence, expectations placed on oneself, and thus
achievement. Furthermore, the child when grown up will, in the absence
of other intervening factors, consciously and subconsciously transmit
the same self-image and expectation level to his children in turn,
thus completing the generational loop. All this is pretty much
conclusively established in psychological studies. Landmark research
in this area was the scientific basis for the US supreme court
overturning school segregation in the 1955 Brown vs. Board of
Education case.
Exceptional children from all backgrounds are capable of transcending
negative self-images and achieve their potential. For more normal
low-caste children, the transmission of low self-image from their parents,
reinforced by the abuse and belittlement they receive from society in
the form of teachers etc. is indeed analogous to an inherited missing
thumb.
I don't know whether Satish Chandra had access to such scientific
studies. I am guessing he didn't. That is why it is all the more
remarkable that he is able to distil his personal experience and go
straight to the heart of the matter, and tell us his story using a
familiar metaphor. Even if he did read the science in a book, it is
not an ordinary feat to express this succintly as he did.
Is it the right approach? Well, it depends on what problem one is
trying to solve, diagnosis or treatment. Diagnosis obviously comes
before treatment. Society has to get over its denial of the problem
first.
....
>May be we can't understand his REAL feelings, but I can call it a good kavita
>and call him a kavi ONLY when I am able to understand what he writes and ONLY
>when he is able to EXPRESS things in a manner that is widely understood.
I had no difficulty in understanding what the man was saying. Does
that count?
....
>I'll not drag this discussion into something like the "representation of
>social symbols in BAratam and other epics" and "what vyAsa and others
>actually meant by writing them"etc., but I'd just say that vyAsa would
>not have expected that his epic would be abused, mis-used and mis-interpreted
>in future, for lack of proper understanding from the audience/readers.
I have a different perspective about epics--they are a perennial
source of imagery and metaphor for subsequent generations; that is
what makes them epics. Western literature is full of reworkings and
transformations of the epics of western society, from the Greek plays
to the Bible to Shakespeare. Using Bharatam as the ever-productive mother
lode of the collective imagination of all segments of society is the
highest devotional tribute that can be paid to vyaasa. I would be more
pained if Satish Chandra declared that vyaasa and Bhaaratam were
irrelevant to his creativity. Then we can say that we are in danger of
losing our connection with our past.
....
>That is what you felt, but I felt that the poet completely missed the symbolic
>representation of the Ekalavya character itself in mahA BAratam. I fear that
>this kind of distorted view may even lead to more illogical inferences like
>the epics were written by a section/so called upper class of the society for
>their own benefits..:-)
I am sure they were, at least in part. There is a scholarly consensus
that vast portions of Bhaaratam (notably Shanti Parvam, Bhagavat Gita)
are later interpolations. It has been said that whatever is elsewhere
is also in Bhaaratam, but whatever is not in this is not
elsewhere. This is not possible unless accretions were made to the
main story (in the form of piTTa kathalu for example) over time; it
would not be surprising to find that these accretions were made with
political goals in mind. We know that puraaNas are, by their own
internal admission, written for the purpose of education (one might
call it propaganda or indoctrination.).
So what? It is still possible for a work written by whoever with
whatever motives to achieve the status of an epic classic, as happened
with Bhaaratam. It all depends on whether the content continues to
have meaning for successive generations. There is no rule that the
epic has to hold the same meaning for everyone; the meaning depends on
the condition of that person. Do we read Rudyard Kipling's stories or
John Masters's stories (and other British Raj stories set
in India) stories in the same way that a white British person reads
them? In these books the nationalist forces are usually shown as
villains or clowns and the Brits are shown as noble and
benevolent. Who do we identify with?
Our respect for the bhaarata-karta needn't diminish just because we
realize that his social viewpoint is not identical to ours today; we
can still be grateful that he, in part, made us what we are today, and
he left us something of our own to inspire us in a rapidly-chainging and
troubling era.
My personal views.
Bapa Rao
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